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I don't agree with it but i think it had to be done. If not it would have been a replay of the early 80s with banks refusing to lend money to other banks or anyone else for that matter and the economy grinding to a halt for 5-10 years. i hope there is some accountability to the institutions that caused this mess though. the economic deregulation and racial backdoor politics of the clinton years mixed with the credit crazy times were currently in have created a really bad situation.
The blame is pretty well spread out among the banks, fannie and freddie, the Fed and consumers with massive feelings of entitlement but more government envolvement is not a long term answer. we need to get back to a place where money is lended to those who have the ability to repay and not just to anyone who comes asking and there has to be a consequence for those that don't pay. i know that most people want to own homes but people need to stay within they're means, if you make $50k a year odds are really good that you can't afford a $300k house, and you probably won't be able to in the 5 years you have with your interest only loans and the banks need to realize this.
There also has to be a consequence for institutions that lend to those who can't afford it knowingly. if they can't make good business decisions then maybe they shouldn't be in business.
that said, we can't allow companies the size of AIG to fail. doing so could pull down not just the economy of the US but other counties that have money tied up in it. a quick look at world markets since all this started will show how bad it could have bene if these companies just collapsed.
This $700B bail out is the lesser of 2 evils, neither of which is pretty. I see the necessity to it, but I don't like it any more. Some of the elements that lead to the financial crisis could have been avoided many years back but problems were either ignore or pushed to side with the thought that higher profit margins will make the underlying problems go away. You combine that irresponsible spending (both public and private), irresponsible lending and a growing trade deficit which helped to devalue the US dollar and you have all the makings for a crisis. Compound those elements with natural disasters both foreign and domestic and now you have a real clusterfuck on your hands.
It would be interesting to see what the D&B number for the US govt is at right or would be at if the Govt doesn't subscribe to D&B.
John McCains staff probably lobbied for the bailouts. Who was at the center of the SL' banking crisis that plagued the 80's? John McCain and his Keating Five chronies that defrauded the tax payers out of billions. And this is the guy the Republicans want running the country?
The bailouts are ridiculous if I make a poor investment I would not get bailed out. Investment banks have been playing the game of heads I win tails the tax payers lose. Although it is a necessary for the stability of the economy, a blank check should not be written at the expense of the tax payers with no oversite. Other countries should also chip in because of the importance of America to the global economy.
These bailouts will cause staggering inflation because the dollar will become damn near worthless. Because we are essentialy pumping monopoly money into the system. What that means in the short term is higher gas,food, and energy cost. Time to invest in gold because the US dollar is not going to be worth the paper it is printed on.
"John McCain railed against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the campaign trail today, saying that the CEOs that led the lenders to ruin "deserve nothing" and should have to pay back their severance packages.
If that's the case, McCain should look first to his campaign staffers as the cause of that debacle. One of them was Fannie Mae's head of lobbying, and spread tens of millions of dollars around Washington in the form of lobbying contracts. A number of McCain staffers were on the receiving end of those contracts, collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each from the lenders to rep their interests. And McCain's campaign manager served as president of a lobbying association that fought to protect Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from the sort of regulation that McCain is now proposing."
So what about the fact that Obama is second on the list of senators receiving the most money from Fannie and Freddie while The Clinton administration's White House Budget Director Franklin Raines ran Fannie and collected $50 million. Jamie Gorelick — Clinton Justice Department official — worked for Fannie and took home $26 million. Big Democrat Jim Johnson, recently on Obama's VP search committee, has hauled in millions from his Fannie Mae CEO job.
and the fact that Fannie and Freddie were creations of the congressional Democrats and the Clinton White House, designed to make mortgages available to more people and, as it turns out, some people who couldn't afford them.
Its so funny how democrats for get their great ideas when they start turning to shit and start blaming republicans. take some responsibility guys, maybe people would respect you more.
I don't think you can really place blame on the IDEA as much as the implementation of it and then its subsequent directors who ran the companies with little regard to the wreckage they were creating. Freddie and Fannie were at the time good moves, but when you start to run a company strictly on how far in the black you can get with no regard to what you are doing to get there you are have recipe for disaster. You can liken that business model to putting an open 20 lb bag of food in front of a dog. That dog is gonna eat until the food is gone or it can't eat anymore. The dog doesn't consider the shit that its gonna need to recover from eating that much. Freddie and Fannie ate until all the food was gone, and now look at the shit they need to keep from dieing.
I knew you would go there Obama received contributions of about $100,000 from Fannie/Freddie and has$80,256,247 over the course of his campaign. That breaks down to well .001 % that is hardly enough to garner influence in his administration.
Frank Raines has nothing to do with the Obama campaign that is one in the many of LIES that McCain camp has sent out to the Republican sheep. Jim Johnson was removed from the search committee less than two weeks into the process. Carolyn Kennedy and Eric Holder lead the search for VP.
These institutions had regulations in place and people like Phil Graham on behalf of UBS lobbied to deregulate the home mortgage industry. And oh by the way this is the same Phil Graham that wrote the John McCain policy. Thank but no thanks Foreclosure Phil. That is like asking a pedophile watch your children recipe for disaster.
There is a good website called factcheck.org you should use it before you post such nonsense. LOL
Interesting, because on July 16, 2008, The Washington Post reported that Franklin Raines had "taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing policy matters.". Also, in an editorial in August 27, 2008 titled "Tough Decision Coming", the Washington Post editorial staff claimed that "Two members of Mr. Obama's political circle, James A. Johnson and Franklin D. Raines, are former chief executives of Fannie Mae."
oh and a quick check on factcheck.org turns up no results on Raines.
Personally I don't think BUSH cares at all. This is a feeble attempt to clear up his mess, Congress wouldn't have to clear, clean,clarify or specify that certain things be added if he was looking at this being for the PEOPLE. The major rush is the fact that his rich friends and lobbist are loosing money by the hour and as he has always done, made sure the richer get richer. Now they are getting hit where it hurts in the pockets and it doesn't feel nice.
During the Clinton days his adminstration created a concept to help people, unfortunately human greed took over and we know the rest. However, most economist saw this coming for months but who took the initiative to do something NO ONE ! They all sat back and watched these CEO'S get fat pockets and lead their compaines to ruins. While the homeowners and everyday people lost they lives (job, house, etc) Im glad the BUSH ERA is coming to an end ! Now they are afraid Barrack is going to tax them and take some of their money, Think about all they have taken from the middle class common folks. They need to take their thumb out theirs mouths and stop whinning.. Appears the chickens have come home to roost
oh so no one saw this coming, how about McCain in 2005 with the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act, you can read straight from the congressional record at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190.
or in 2003 when the Bush Administration attempted to create an agency to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The bill never made progress in Congress, facing sharp opposition by Democrats. The proposition is said to have possibly prevented the subprime mortgage crisis according to the NY Times.
as for unemployment, in 1996, the heart of the clinton happy times, unemployement was 5.6%. in January2007 when Satan W. Bush was ruling the "roost" it was 5.0%. But somehow thats worse.
He told the Senate Banking Committee that credit markets would dry up, leaving companies without the capital needed to expand and consumers without access to loans to buy big-ticket items such as cars and homes.
That in turn, he said, would result in lost jobs. He added that "more houses will be foreclosed upon" and "the economy will just not be able to recover in a normal, healthy way."
Earlier, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson urged Congress to pass the proposal quickly, calling the plan "the single most effective thing we can do to help homeowners, the American people and stimulate our economy."
Still, the plan is being sharply criticized by congressional Republicans. Kentucky Sen. Jim Bunning called the plan "financial socialism" and "un-American."
The Republicans said the sheer size of the plan would take $2,300 from every man, woman and child in the United States.
Shelby, the committee's ranking Republican, said he's concerned that he has heard "no credible assurances that this plan will work."
"Yesterday, Senator John McCain released a television commercial attacking Barack Obama for allegedly receiving advice on the economy from former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines. From the stump, he has recently tried tying Senator Obama to Fannie Mae, as if there is some guilt in the association with Fannie Mae's former executives.
It is an interesting card for Senator McCain to play, given that his campaign manager, Rick Davis, was paid by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac several hundred thousand dollars early in this decade to head up an organization to lobby in their behalf called The Homeownership Alliance. ...
I worked in government relations for Fannie Mae for more than 20 years, leading the group for most of those years. When I see photographs of Sen. McCain's staff, it looks to me like the team of lobbyists who used to report to me. Senator McCain's attack on Senator Obama is a cheap shot, and hypocritical.
Sincerely,
William Maloni Fannie Mae Senior Vice President for Government and Industry Relations (1983-2004)"
The straight talk express derailed a long time ago. Only thing republicans have to hold on to is ideology and talking points. What the facts state are record deficits, job loses, and mortgage/banking failure.
Its laughable how anyone can attempt to defend Gdub and his chronies. They have looted the national treasury blind.
McCain = 4 more years of the same.
Now GM and the other automakers want a piece of this bailout action!
GM and the other american auto companies shouldn't get a damn dime, they haven't produced a car that compete with the japanese auto industry in decades. if they would wake up and start making cars that people want other than stupid giant land tanks maybe they would still be worth saving. i really hope they straighten up and turn their business around but it might be too little to late.
but one thing different about the banks and AIG and the auto companies is that if Ford failes a whole lot fewer people worldwide will suffer than if AIG went under.
14 comments:
I don't agree with it but i think it had to be done. If not it would have been a replay of the early 80s with banks refusing to lend money to other banks or anyone else for that matter and the economy grinding to a halt for 5-10 years. i hope there is some accountability to the institutions that caused this mess though. the economic deregulation and racial backdoor politics of the clinton years mixed with the credit crazy times were currently in have created a really bad situation.
The blame is pretty well spread out among the banks, fannie and freddie, the Fed and consumers with massive feelings of entitlement but more government envolvement is not a long term answer. we need to get back to a place where money is lended to those who have the ability to repay and not just to anyone who comes asking and there has to be a consequence for those that don't pay. i know that most people want to own homes but people need to stay within they're means, if you make $50k a year odds are really good that you can't afford a $300k house, and you probably won't be able to in the 5 years you have with your interest only loans and the banks need to realize this.
There also has to be a consequence for institutions that lend to those who can't afford it knowingly. if they can't make good business decisions then maybe they shouldn't be in business.
that said, we can't allow companies the size of AIG to fail. doing so could pull down not just the economy of the US but other counties that have money tied up in it. a quick look at world markets since all this started will show how bad it could have bene if these companies just collapsed.
This $700B bail out is the lesser of 2 evils, neither of which is pretty. I see the necessity to it, but I don't like it any more. Some of the elements that lead to the financial crisis could have been avoided many years back but problems were either ignore or pushed to side with the thought that higher profit margins will make the underlying problems go away. You combine that irresponsible spending (both public and private), irresponsible lending and a growing trade deficit which helped to devalue the US dollar and you have all the makings for a crisis. Compound those elements with natural disasters both foreign and domestic and now you have a real clusterfuck on your hands.
It would be interesting to see what the D&B number for the US govt is at right or would be at if the Govt doesn't subscribe to D&B.
John McCains staff probably lobbied for the bailouts. Who was at the center of the SL' banking crisis that plagued the 80's? John McCain and his Keating Five chronies that defrauded the tax payers out of billions. And this is the guy the Republicans want running the country?
The bailouts are ridiculous if I make a poor investment I would not get bailed out. Investment banks have been playing the game of heads I win tails the tax payers lose. Although it is a necessary for the stability of the economy, a blank check should not be written at the expense of the tax payers with no oversite. Other countries should also chip in because of the importance of America to the global economy.
These bailouts will cause staggering inflation because the dollar will become damn near worthless. Because we are essentialy pumping monopoly money into the system. What that means in the short term is higher gas,food, and energy cost. Time to invest in gold because the US dollar is not going to be worth the paper it is printed on.
"John McCain railed against Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the campaign trail today, saying that the CEOs that led the lenders to ruin "deserve nothing" and should have to pay back their severance packages.
If that's the case, McCain should look first to his campaign staffers as the cause of that debacle. One of them was Fannie Mae's head of lobbying, and spread tens of millions of dollars around Washington in the form of lobbying contracts. A number of McCain staffers were on the receiving end of those contracts, collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars each from the lenders to rep their interests. And McCain's campaign manager served as president of a lobbying association that fought to protect Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae from the sort of regulation that McCain is now proposing."
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/09/9663_mccain_fannie_freddie.html
So what about the fact that Obama is second on the list of senators receiving the most money from Fannie and Freddie while The Clinton administration's White House Budget Director Franklin Raines ran Fannie and collected $50 million. Jamie Gorelick — Clinton Justice Department official — worked for Fannie and took home $26 million. Big Democrat Jim Johnson, recently on Obama's VP search committee, has hauled in millions from his Fannie Mae CEO job.
and the fact that Fannie and Freddie were creations of the congressional Democrats and the Clinton White House, designed to make mortgages available to more people and, as it turns out, some people who couldn't afford them.
Its so funny how democrats for get their great ideas when they start turning to shit and start blaming republicans. take some responsibility guys, maybe people would respect you more.
I don't think you can really place blame on the IDEA as much as the implementation of it and then its subsequent directors who ran the companies with little regard to the wreckage they were creating. Freddie and Fannie were at the time good moves, but when you start to run a company strictly on how far in the black you can get with no regard to what you are doing to get there you are have recipe for disaster. You can liken that business model to putting an open 20 lb bag of food in front of a dog. That dog is gonna eat until the food is gone or it can't eat anymore. The dog doesn't consider the shit that its gonna need to recover from eating that much. Freddie and Fannie ate until all the food was gone, and now look at the shit they need to keep from dieing.
that is probably the most fantastic analogy that i have ever heard.
Josh-
I knew you would go there Obama received contributions of about $100,000 from Fannie/Freddie and has$80,256,247 over the course of his campaign. That breaks down to well .001 % that is hardly enough to garner influence in his administration.
Frank Raines has nothing to do with the Obama campaign that is one in the many of LIES that McCain camp has sent out to the Republican sheep. Jim Johnson was removed from the search committee less than two weeks into the process. Carolyn Kennedy and Eric Holder lead the search for VP.
These institutions had regulations in place and people like Phil Graham on behalf of UBS lobbied to deregulate the home mortgage industry. And oh by the way this is the same Phil Graham that wrote the John McCain policy. Thank but no thanks Foreclosure Phil. That is like asking a pedophile watch your children recipe for disaster.
There is a good website called factcheck.org you should use it before you post such nonsense. LOL
Interesting, because on July 16, 2008, The Washington Post reported that Franklin Raines had "taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing policy matters.". Also, in an editorial in August 27, 2008 titled "Tough Decision Coming", the Washington Post editorial staff claimed that "Two members of Mr. Obama's political circle, James A. Johnson and Franklin D. Raines, are former chief executives of Fannie Mae."
oh and a quick check on factcheck.org turns up no results on Raines.
Personally I don't think BUSH cares at all. This is a feeble attempt to clear up his mess, Congress wouldn't have to clear, clean,clarify or specify that certain things be added if he was looking at this being for the PEOPLE. The major rush is the fact that his rich friends and lobbist are loosing money by the hour and as he has always done, made sure the richer get richer. Now they are getting hit where it hurts in the pockets and it doesn't feel nice.
During the Clinton days his adminstration created a concept to help people, unfortunately human greed took over and we know the rest. However, most economist saw this coming for months but who took the initiative to do something NO ONE ! They all sat back and watched these CEO'S get fat pockets and lead their compaines to ruins. While the homeowners and everyday people lost they lives (job, house, etc) Im glad the BUSH ERA is coming to an end ! Now they are afraid Barrack is going to tax them and take some of their money, Think about all they have taken from the middle class common folks. They need to take their thumb out theirs mouths and stop whinning.. Appears the chickens have come home to roost
oh so no one saw this coming, how about McCain in 2005 with the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act, you can read straight from the congressional record at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190.
or in 2003 when the Bush Administration attempted to create an agency to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The bill never made progress in Congress, facing sharp opposition by Democrats. The proposition is said to have possibly prevented the subprime mortgage crisis according to the NY Times.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
as for unemployment, in 1996, the heart of the clinton happy times, unemployement was 5.6%. in January2007 when Satan W. Bush was ruling the "roost" it was 5.0%. But somehow thats worse.
He told the Senate Banking Committee that credit markets would dry up, leaving companies without the capital needed to expand and consumers without access to loans to buy big-ticket items such as cars and homes.
That in turn, he said, would result in lost jobs. He added that "more houses will be foreclosed upon" and "the economy will just not be able to recover in a normal, healthy way."
Earlier, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson urged Congress to pass the proposal quickly, calling the plan "the single most effective thing we can do to help homeowners, the American people and stimulate our economy."
Still, the plan is being sharply criticized by congressional Republicans. Kentucky Sen. Jim Bunning called the plan "financial socialism" and "un-American."
The Republicans said the sheer size of the plan would take $2,300 from every man, woman and child in the United States.
Shelby, the committee's ranking Republican, said he's concerned that he has heard "no credible assurances that this plan will work."
"Yesterday, Senator John McCain released a television commercial attacking Barack Obama for allegedly receiving advice on the economy from former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines. From the stump, he has recently tried tying Senator Obama to Fannie Mae, as if there is some guilt in the association with Fannie Mae's former executives.
It is an interesting card for Senator McCain to play, given that his campaign manager, Rick Davis, was paid by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac several hundred thousand dollars early in this decade to head up an organization to lobby in their behalf called The Homeownership Alliance. ...
I worked in government relations for Fannie Mae for more than 20 years, leading the group for most of those years. When I see photographs of Sen. McCain's staff, it looks to me like the team of lobbyists who used to report to me. Senator McCain's attack on Senator Obama is a cheap shot, and hypocritical.
Sincerely,
William Maloni
Fannie Mae Senior Vice President for Government and Industry Relations (1983-2004)"
The straight talk express derailed a long time ago. Only thing republicans have to hold on to is ideology and talking points. What the facts state are record deficits, job loses, and mortgage/banking failure.
Its laughable how anyone can attempt to defend Gdub and his chronies. They have looted the national treasury blind.
McCain = 4 more years of the same.
Now GM and the other automakers want a piece of this bailout action!
GM and the other american auto companies shouldn't get a damn dime, they haven't produced a car that compete with the japanese auto industry in decades. if they would wake up and start making cars that people want other than stupid giant land tanks maybe they would still be worth saving. i really hope they straighten up and turn their business around but it might be too little to late.
but one thing different about the banks and AIG and the auto companies is that if Ford failes a whole lot fewer people worldwide will suffer than if AIG went under.
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